Talk:Aluin
Why couldn't the three sons be re-imagined as his chiefs? Aluin's Chiefs? Moran half valar (talk) 03:35, October 7, 2016 (UTC) :Well one certainly could do that. But does it make sense? I mean, Aluin is still with Illuvatar in the Timeless Halls... if he sends his "spiritual Sons" to Middle-earth to help weaving time it would make sense to reinterpret this as them assisting Vaire in weaving the history of the World.But then again, they are not Chiefs of Aluin anymore, or am I wrong?--Haerangil (talk) 04:17, October 7, 2016 (UTC) Well if going by the story in lost tales, I would still say that they would be with Aluin as Manwe didn't know who they were at first. But whatever you want to do man. Moran half valar (talk) 01:59, October 8, 2016 (UTC) :Sure, I don't see any contradiction... how should Manwe recognise them as incarnates, even if all of them somehow had their part in the great music the Eälars existence previous to their descend upon Arda was a different state of being.With their descend and taking physical shapes they also left their "father" Aluin.But these are cosmological issues and Tolkien abandoned them quite at an early stage, if we want to use them we have to bring them somehow in concordance with the changes in the later cosmology.I like the three brothers. --Haerangil (talk) 05:22, October 8, 2016 (UTC) I agree. Moran half valar (talk) 13:47, October 8, 2016 (UTC) Haerangil, there is nothing that states how many powers are Valar like, but we have to imagine that some Valar like beings stayed with Eru. Tulkas and Aluin are good examples of this. With that said, how many Valar type aniur do you believe reside with Eru and did any of them descend into Arda eventually? We know Tulkas did. Moran half valar (talk) 01:58, June 17, 2018 (UTC) :as far as i see it it is the role the valar take, which makes them valar. They are all deeply interwoven wirh arda herself, tulkas is sort of an exception as a latecomer. Only fifteen of those descended ainur were powerful enough to be considered valar. Ungolianth or aluin in this sense are not valar, though they seem similar in power.--Haerangil (talk) 02:25, June 17, 2018 (UTC) Sighs, I agree with that, but I asked what you personally felt on numbers. If Aluin and Ungoliant are Valar equivalents, then how many of these equivalent Aniur reside with Eru? Moran half valar (talk) 03:05, June 17, 2018 (UTC) : who could say? By the way... if Aluin is in the timeless halls he is incorporeal, so how can he possess any items?--Haerangil (talk) 12:56, July 18, 2018 (UTC) How did Tulkas? He bears certain items. Don't know though, seems like Aluin would need something maybe. If you want, I can delete the artifacts. I just didn't know if the Lost Tales gave him any items. Moran half valar (talk) 15:05, July 18, 2018 (UTC) :Tulkas does enter Arda and assumes a fana. Aluin does explicitly not so!--Haerangil (talk) 10:46, July 19, 2018 (UTC) That doesn't mean he couldn't though. Also, why the pic of an old man then? Anyways, I know that his items would have to be made up so I deleted the artifacts anyways. So no infinity guantlet for him. Moran half valar (talk) 15:01, July 19, 2018 (UTC)